How is it possible to mate with just 2 knights against a king onl.
I think this game should end drow, but black won in this game
I think this game should end drow, but black won in this game
Hello, I try my best to answer this question. As stated in the fide rulebook any combination that leads to checkmate is winning. For example, the game below shows a checkmate with two knights. Hope this helps. TheFerrari
USCF would count it as a draw, as would chess.com. I do feel like it makes sense that way since it's impossible to force a checkmate like this your opponent would basically have to cooperate
idk
idk
Which is why it's known as the selfmate. Lichess follows FIDE rules, so complain to them.
FIDE rules are pretty simple, if you time out, you lose. One exception is when checkmate is never possible with material left on the board (you need to demonstrate a legal sequence of moves that leads to a mate though), no matter what. Then your opponent gets the maximum amount possible, which would be 0.5 points, since they never can win.
Here the checkmate is possible, it doesn't matter how probably it is, so the game is lost.
These are positions that would end up in a draw: lichess.org/forum/lichess-feedback/draw-bug-6#7
Otherwise it's always going to be a loss.
Here the checkmate is possible, it doesn't matter how probably it is, so the game is lost.
These are positions that would end up in a draw: lichess.org/forum/lichess-feedback/draw-bug-6#7
Otherwise it's always going to be a loss.
@mostafa_goda in short, you confused "possible" with "forceable".
2N mate is easy to construct, but not possible to force due to stalemate.
2N mate is easy to construct, but not possible to force due to stalemate.
And there's a good reason why the rules are like this. It's not really possible to determine whether a forced mate exists in most situations. For all we know, the starting position could be a forced mate if white (or maybe even black) plays perfectly.
But consider the even worse but more likely situation: What if the starting position is not a forced mate? Does that mean it should be a draw when you flag in the starting position or any other situation that remains a draw after perfect play? At that point, we might as well just not play the game and just agree that every game is a draw.
Things like "nobody would be so stupid and get mated in this position" are completely subjective. You can't write that into the rules and from time to time, people do lose stupid positions or draw positions that should be a forced mate, especially on low time. Just take a look at how many people fall into Eric Rosen's stalemate trap. And worse stuff has happened to even very good players in slow tournaments: lichess.org/practice/checkmates/knight--bishop-mate/ByhlXnmM/Z9gmSew0
But consider the even worse but more likely situation: What if the starting position is not a forced mate? Does that mean it should be a draw when you flag in the starting position or any other situation that remains a draw after perfect play? At that point, we might as well just not play the game and just agree that every game is a draw.
Things like "nobody would be so stupid and get mated in this position" are completely subjective. You can't write that into the rules and from time to time, people do lose stupid positions or draw positions that should be a forced mate, especially on low time. Just take a look at how many people fall into Eric Rosen's stalemate trap. And worse stuff has happened to even very good players in slow tournaments: lichess.org/practice/checkmates/knight--bishop-mate/ByhlXnmM/Z9gmSew0
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