do something about lag comp in ultra

first off, theoritically lag doesn't even belong in the ultrabullet in the first place cause it's literally against very purpose of ultra, it slowens down the pace and ultra becomes everything but ultra, it isn't even ultra anymore, it's more like 0+1. but ok my thread isn't even about just taking away lag comp, i get it's needed.

there are so many players who don't even respect ultrabullet, don't even consider it chess and some even call kb or even winning on time or making blunders cheating - they aren't even familiar with very basic concepts of ultra like flag, blunder, blundercheck, antipremove, and they just play ultra with lag and are like 2000-2200 - they aren't great at ultrabullet, some of them may not even compete with 1900 without lag, but they don't even need to be great cause they don't play ultra, that laggy ultra they think is ultra is anything but it. there are 2200s who don't lag and i compete with them decently, but same time i get screwed vs 1900 lag.

what i hate is how literally every attempt to speak about this is literally givenodamned by the website, in the early days at least they admitted it was an issue, but now as long as there are at least 5 blitz players who can downvote and reply you are so selfish they are all fine and everyone pretends lag isn't even issue. i come here asking for solutions, not even asking directly do necessarily this necessarily that, i'm just asking for solution and these people who don't care nor even play saying oh u think u know better than lichess and asking to stop whining.

it's ridiculous that 1) good internet can be an advantage and worse 2) that i even have to write longass paragraphs about it dropping tons of arguments to prove that literal issue in connection is wrong and that 3) i have been doing this for years.

only reason you just keep pretending that lag comp is all fine and doesn't need fix is you just don't want to oppress players with lag cause it goes against your philosophy and how it should be free and how it should treat everyone equal. you aren't making anything fair as long as you are just reversing roles, but to punish someone for bad net and cut them off from playing format that literally requires good net at least makes sense (same way some race requires nice engine and nice tires), but in reversed case it doesn't even make a sense to punish me for good net and cut me off from playing a format that literally requires good net.

there is innumerable evidence that lag comp is unfair in so many ways, it has been said here lots of times, but to fully take away lag comp isn't my point, nor would it even much help, but at least change something, there is more than one solution

1) literally reduce ms you are compensating back on each move cause biggest issue with current lag comp is they are getting back way more than they lose cause of higher ping. just literally reduce, there's not even way it can't be technically impossible, nor even hard. it is literally as possible as it gets.

2) show opponent's ping same way u show their name cause literally why not? aside from standart time advantage laggers have another kind of advantage which is a) they don't have to switch to another gameplay style when facing non-lagger virtually whatsoever while non-lagger has to suddenly adjust to completely different game style where flag is irrelevant and losing a pawn costs u a game, it's all calculated that non-lagger has to change their game to compete 5x more than lagger has when facing non-lagger b) now that being said, at least reduce that disadvantage by at least letting us know whether we play a lagger or non-lagger before we even start a game so even though we still have to adjust we do it from move 1, not from move 30 when we think opponent is like 1 secs but they are in fact 10 and we are 1.

3) playing ultra with high lag doesn't even make sense in the first place, you can't even cut off someone from playing ultra when they don't even play ultra if you let them cause what they play isn't ultra, i simply can't relate to players saying they have 2 bars but they somehow still like 15 seconds chess. aside from it not being 15 second chess but something completely different, what's even its appeal? there is no reason to stick with 1/4 + 0 if you play with severe lag, you can't say why and how exactly is 1/4 + 0 different and better so that u choose it, you can play 0+1, it will be way more similiar than what 1/4 + 0 except in that case even an opponent will get increment/will be fine w your increment. there is no reason 2 bars (sometimes even 3) should even be getting any kinda comp or competing in ultra cause they don't even play ultra either way cause those games aren't even ultra so keep lag comp for 4 bars and ok maybe 3 bars too and let lag comp compensate say 80 ping and 100 ping in kb shuffles, in situations like that lag comp will be even fine and needed, there's no need for lag comp otherwise.

4) make different arenas maybe 4 bars and below 4 bars cause another thing this is so terrible is you can't choose who u play in arenas, you can't block them there, there are so many players who don't get the chance to win cause they just can't avoid laggers and many even leave after watching some select laggers being constantly at top.

5) pair players according to their lag, say there are 3lag, 4nolag, 5lag, 6nolag places in arena, pair 4 and 6 and 3 and 5.

6) let us filter by lag when seeking a game same way we filter by rating and etc, cause not only neither of two gonna like games being aborted, it gonna cost non-laggers ban for aborting.

i am making this thread to try once again, attract others with same concern and make lichess aware of the problem we are facing so maybe finally something is done (there is nothing impossible nor hard in just reducing ms they get back). that being said i will embrace any kinda reply that brings points even if fallacious, not comments like

lichess does know this better than u
stop being baby/loser
take it easy, it's just game
you are selfish/arrogant/you hate 3rd world people
if you don't like it play somewhere else
please use lichess/appeal instead
i don't play anything below rapid so i don't care about it hence you shouldn't care about it either
i play only classical but i feel the need to teach you why you are absolutely wrong about ultra.

another way to look at it, now i'm not bringing this to call everyone who lags cheater, but to put it in perspective and make it clearer - imagine a world where everyone lives in a same city (or somehow just everyone has exactly same ping), there is no such thing as lack of servers, then imagine some player purposely lags or uses lag switch to get to 3 bars or 2 bars. obviously not only will it be a) advantage, but it will be unfair and b) wrong.

in that case a player doing so would get reported and when caught punished and banned. most obviously when lag isn't increased artificially, you can't call players doing so b) wrong (in a sense that they don't deserve ban), but it is still same with a) - it is still an advantage and unfair.

on the flipside, what gonna happen if i start lagging artificially vs lag? will i be banned? but if i gonna get banned, it comes down to essentially what i said - that even though i would do exactly same as my opponent does (have ping x) i would be considered wrong while an opponent wouldn't.

1.using vpn to get lag against people with lag cannot be unfair. both players have the same connection then. (fair)
2.using vpn to get lag against people without lag is an unfair advantage. (advantage)
3.not using vpn against laggers. (disadvantage)
4.not using vpn against people with perfect connection. (fair)

preach

I do agree, I am sick and tired of laggers.

But when Lichess becomes aware of this issue, what will you do then? Ban them? How will you know the difference between someone getting lag comp and someone who is actually lagging? What if they aren't using a vpn to lag, but just happen to. Lichess has been aware of this issue for a bit now, but what will you do?

About half the posts are from people who say that people with excessive lag benefit. The other half are from people who say they suffer.

Sometimes comments come from both sides right after another (agreeing but not really!) because people write really long posts like you did that are hard to understand.

@puzzleshighest

no, you seem to have got it like i'm only against artificial laggers or i only have problem with artificially created lag comp. i actually write this about all kinds of laggers and comp they get. the difference is of course artificially lagging is cheating too as it's done on purpose and lagging is just wrong without really cheating, of course telling those is not easy, but it wasn't even my point, my point was to just fix and change lag comp in and of itself so that it doesn't yield reverse-advantage for laggers or at least not as much advantage. that's what my options was about.

i think what you asked is how do you tell difference between playing with low ping and just getting natural, standart lag comp and lagging and getting higher lag comp?

@flaggedyourlaguslow i completely agree, it is terrible to feel no matter what you do they always seem to have the same amount of time even if they haven't premoved. Its playing with increment and lichess just need to reduce the amount of time people get for lagging so it isn't a huge advantage

I do agree, some of these really do matter. Pairing no lag players accordingly is great idea.

Yes that is a great idea